Author Topic: BASIC  (Read 10471 times)

Offline John

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Re: BASIC
« Reply #60 on: October 12, 2018, 03:09:16 PM »
Quote from: Tomaaz
According to John, Peter Verhas decided to created ScriptBasic only because he was unaware of Python existence. Then he abandoned it, moved to Java and didn't really care what was going on with his interpreter. I'm pretty sure he's a brilliant programmer, but this "BASIC hero" status some users have granted him is completely out of proportion.

What I said is that if Peter would have known how popular Python was going to be, he more than likely wouldn't have put the effort he did into Script BASIC. (which I'm very thankful for) There are traces of Python syntax in SB as well as Perl. I think it's obvious Peter has a sweet spot for BASIC.

Peter speaks over a dozen languages. What makes you think Peter would limit himself to one programming language?

Peter is a hero in my eyes and a really good person.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2018, 05:46:01 PM by John »

Offline John

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Re: BASIC
« Reply #61 on: October 19, 2018, 10:19:53 AM »
Quote from: Tomaaz@RetroB
Just try to talk about ScriptBasic's flaws and you'll see that it's not a lack of time that is the problem...

FYI: In over the dozen years I have been managing the Script BASIC project I only found one obscure bug with a LIKE compare symbol conflict which Peter fixed instantly moving a line of code. Other than that, SB has been flawless.

The problem most people have with Script BASIC is they assume it's an it's an interpreter when it's being offered as an embeddable API. Extending Peter's scriba example as a useful tool has been my cross to bare, not Peter's.

If your pastime is trashing languages you haven't tried, don't be surprised when people don't take you seriously.

Quote from: B+@RetroB
Don't be sad, allot of people who might be interested just don't have the time or it's not their time yet to visit this one little star in the universe of adventures.

The Rosetta Code Word Search challenge was half baked. There wasn't any easy way to create the word puzzle grid from a list of words. That should have been the precursor to the challenge. (generator and a solver)
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 12:51:10 PM by John »

Offline AlyssonR

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Re: BASIC
« Reply #62 on: October 20, 2018, 01:58:17 AM »
No matter what the intention behind scriba, it is an excellent crossplatform scripting engine.

While not as rich as the VBS engine on Windows, it is quite a bit faster for many things, and will generally run scripts natively on at least Windows and *ix.

Offline John

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Re: BASIC
« Reply #63 on: October 20, 2018, 08:54:59 AM »
Script BASIC is the super glue in my software toolbox.

Offline John

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Re: BASIC
« Reply #64 on: October 20, 2018, 10:33:52 AM »
Quote from: B+@RetroB
2. Code for building Word Search Puzzles, because that is certainly a more advanced level of challenge, IMHOOC (In My Humble ;-)) Opinion, Of Course) specially when it is expected to insert secret message or "ROSETTA" in the non used letters of the puzzle.

When code challenges become more complex then the job I'm being paid to write, the pissing contest rapidly loses my interest.


« Last Edit: October 20, 2018, 11:55:29 AM by John »

Online AIR

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Re: BASIC
« Reply #65 on: October 20, 2018, 10:56:25 PM »
When code challenges become more complex then the job I'm being paid to write, the pissing contest rapidly loses my interest.

Code challenges that might have real world application are going to be more complex than trivial crap like the Floyd Triangle. 

Honestly, if you want SB to be seriously considered as a part of someone's arsenal, then just show what it can do and possibly how easy it can do it.  Let the platform speak for itself.

AIR.

Offline John

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Re: BASIC
« Reply #66 on: October 20, 2018, 11:13:27 PM »
Quote from: AIR
Code challenges that might have real world application are going to be more complex than trivial crap like the Floyd Triangle.


The point of a SB Floyd's Triangle was to explain to Tomaaz that one line of multiple statements desn't always mean less code. The other lesson was just because SB is an interpreter, it holds its own against compiled alternatives.

Online AIR

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Re: BASIC
« Reply #67 on: October 20, 2018, 11:31:33 PM »
The point of a SB Floyd's Triangle was to explain to Tomaaz that one line of multiple statements desn't always mean less code. The other lesson was just because SB is an interpreter, it holds its own against compiled alternatives.

I'm not knocking your solution, it was pretty elegant in it's simplicity.

My point is, how applicable is that to a real world scenario?  How would SB fare in solving a more complex real world programming challenge? Other than Peter, I think you're the only other person who could provide examples at this point.  Am I egging you on a bit?  Guilty. 

I'm not saying do the wordsearch challenge; what I AM saying is show how SB would make a typical programming problem easier to solve.  At the end of the day, I use whichever language makes it easiest to achieve a required goal. Sometimes it's an interpreted (scripting) language, other times compiled.  But even though I've been around SB a bit, and even though I've gone through it's guts at times, I've never used it as you do.  I've always had other options, and used them instead.

So I'm asking you to share some stuff that is applicable in a real world programming scenario, and show what SB can actually DO to make my life as a coder easier....

AIR.

Offline John

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Re: BASIC
« Reply #68 on: October 21, 2018, 12:15:50 AM »
I think what I doing with interfacing with VB6 OCX forms as intelligent UI objects is a step up from Floyd.

Offline AlyssonR

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Re: BASIC
« Reply #69 on: October 21, 2018, 02:12:48 AM »
I think what I doing with interfacing with VB6 OCX forms as intelligent UI objects is a step up from Floyd.

Maybe so, and I am very interested, but it is a bit too esoteric for most - and it might smack a bit of of filling in failings in the language.

Unfortunately, a toolbox language is unlikely to win any arguments against people who are keen on big-front-end languages and their own favourite tool-box languages.

Coding challenges are a reasonable way of comparing languages but, IMHO, the challenges tend to either be excessively simplistic (Floyd triangle) or overly complex (chess solver, a traditional challenge class). I find them rather tedious, and the religious wars arising to be ... irritating.

The traditional example applications (in a fairly random order) used to be:-
  • A simple accounting program (MS continued this with their Northwind exemplars)
  • A Tic-Tac-Toe game
  • A Chess game
  • Calculation of prime numbers
  • A simple "expert" system
  • Colossal Cave (AKA Hobbit, AKA Adventure, AKA ....)
  • Hello World
These all show off some aspect of the language to the prospective user though they are, admittedly, rather unexciting.

To my mind, the most useful examples are programs that contain some useful, reusable code that can be compared for speed and efficiency (like sorting routines, simple database operations like "find in file filename.asc", Simple user I/O routines etc.) and where aesthetics may be considered (screen handling, user interface etc.).

But, there again, I don't program for fun - I program for a purpose, and use whichever tool meets my needs best. Right now, that is a combo of SB and VB6.

Offline John

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Re: BASIC
« Reply #70 on: October 21, 2018, 02:25:53 AM »
The Vintage BASIC interpreter has tons of examples and games. Most will port to SB with little effort. (line numbers and all)

I know where SB works for me. Getting that message across to others has done nothing but generated bitterness and calling Script BASIC spam.


Offline John

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Re: BASIC
« Reply #71 on: October 21, 2018, 09:17:23 PM »
I'm confused why Tomaaz keeps pitching obscure languages on a retro BASIC programming / game forum. What is he searching for? The lost perfect language someone abandoned?

« Last Edit: October 21, 2018, 09:19:10 PM by John »

Offline AlyssonR

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Re: BASIC
« Reply #72 on: October 22, 2018, 02:37:40 AM »
I think he's just a bit linguistic identity confused ;)
 
... or, he could just be trolling a bit.

I know that most examples translate fairly easily, but ultimately, games are not a lot of use to me.

Like you, I know where SB is appropriate to use and, more importantly, where it is not (currently, that is).

Unfortunately, when any of us get into discussions about programming languages then people tend to defend their religious icons vigorously, disregarding the actual words used, points made or actual usage posture of the language - even though it is like comparing the DBase III language with Algol - they exist for different purposes.

Frankly, I don't believe that programming fora are the place for promoting serious tools anymore. I'm not sure where is, either. Part of the problem is that every man and his dog has written their own version of BASIC (or whatever) - and of such varying quality that it is impossible to sift through them.

Oh, and I think that Tomaaz is trying to find CUMaC - a language that included elements of a whole bunch of langauges and achieved my award for "The Worst Programming Language Ever".

Online AIR

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Re: BASIC
« Reply #73 on: October 22, 2018, 04:51:15 AM »
I think he's just a bit linguistic identity confused ;)
 
... or, he could just be trolling a bit.

...Or in showing how other languages approach a given problem, possibly nudge BASIC language developers to incorporate things into their respective offerings that makes coding easier overall...

AIR.

Offline John

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Re: BASIC
« Reply #74 on: October 22, 2018, 09:40:04 AM »
Why on a retro Basic and game site? Paul is the only developer there. If it isn't Z80 based, he has little interest.