Author Topic: BASIC  (Read 10468 times)

Offline John

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BASIC
« on: September 20, 2018, 05:24:58 PM »
I'm amazed the BP.org forum group believes creating a language is as easy as solving a crossword puzzle. But what do I know, I'm just an open source project maintainer. I think QBasic is a more difficult BASIC to learn than Script BASIC. SB is a tradition BASIC syntax embeddable scripting engine in a < 500KB footprint.

My interests aren't being a hobby programmer. I do this for a living. My hobby (free time) is spent contributing to and facilitating meaningful open source projects.

For those that can't see beyond the end of their nose, Script BASIC console mnemonics are provided with the CIO extension module. See the cio_color demo that comes with the Windows Install.

A plus for Script BASIC is if the functionality you need isn't part of the language, you can add it seamlessly with an extension module.

@Tomaaz - While I'm solving my needs with a few lines of Script BASIC code, you're off being serious with some bloated rats nest of a scripting language.

You asked Peter (BaCon author) what he thought of Script BASIC. He is a good person to ask as is Charles and Mike. Peter is a very bright programmer that wrote a few extension modules for the language. The BaCon syntax is an extension of Script BASIC and at the time he was using it, he was a big fan.

Peter's gtkserver extension module is still one of my favorites. A high level UI and FFI API that was the motivation for DLLC on Windows. Peter also wrote the original Online Dictionary program which I use as my GUI Hello World standard on multiple OS environments.

Peter Verhas once said that if he would have known Python was going to be so popular, he would have never put the effort he did into Script BASIC.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 11:57:13 PM by John »

Offline AlyssonR

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Re: BASIC
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2018, 09:50:11 AM »
It depends on the crossword.  :o

Offline John

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Re: BASIC
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2018, 03:24:27 PM »
Quote from: Aurel@RetroB
Script Basic primary thing is as far as i know server-side scripting is it?
so as such this language is not for most hobby -enthusiast etc programmers
and also primary target is Linux.

Script BASIC is primarily used for its embedding ability. Linux is where my primary interests reside. I still have clients married to Windows so I continue to support the platform.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 03:26:55 PM by John »

Offline AlyssonR

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Re: BASIC
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2018, 02:06:32 AM »
Right now I am rather chained to Windows - my mineral collection database is on Access and my documents are all in Word & Excel.

I do rather want to migrate to a cross-platform environment and away from Access. Barring a few forms with large amounts of automation in them, my Word and Excel files can all be handles in Open Office or the likes.

Offline John

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Re: BASIC
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2018, 08:42:46 AM »
Peter,

Thanks for your feedback on RetroB. A few comments.

  • Script BASIC is now MIT thanks to Mike's effort working that out with Peter Verhas.
  • Script BASIC runs on ALL flavors of Linux, Unix, Windows 32/64 bit.
  • Script BASIC is embeddable with unlimited expansion possibilities.
  • Script BASIC may not run as fast as BaCon but for what most users would use a BASIC for, the speed difference isn't a factor.

I have 13 years invested in the project. Peter Verhas moved on to become a Java expert. He has already written a few books on the topic.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2018, 08:44:21 AM by John »

Offline John

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Re: BASIC
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2018, 08:56:34 AM »
Quote
Right now I am rather chained to Windows

Have you tried using the Script BASIC COM extension module with MS Office?

Offline Mike Lobanovsky

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Re: BASIC
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2018, 11:53:43 AM »
Guys,

I really don't want to take part in that counter-productive BASIC vs. ASIC discussion either here or on retrogamecoding dot org. I'm sick and tired of the participating characters that keep on repeating their hollow reasons in favor of Dartmouth all over again year in year out, and interspersing them with blatant demagogy at that.

My standpoint is firm and steady: in the year of 2018,
  • a pointer-less BASIC is a pointless BASIC
  • BASIC has always been, and still continues to be, an all-purpose instrument, and its B(eginner's) component is just a minute fraction in the language paradigm that, if unavailable intrinsically in a well-developed BASIC dialect, can be easily plugged in via a screenful-long include file or a tiny dynamically linked module
  • object-oriented BASICs are BASICs all right because, while remaining BASIC-like in their semantics and base vocabulary, they simply implement one of the most productive and efficient schemes to achieve development speed, consistency and maintainability in modern production environments
  • Dartmouth died together with Kemeny
  • line numbers are a ridiculous anachronism
  • spaghetti code as a direct consequence of line numbering is a contagious disease, and spaghetti code advocates breeding it in their retro-dialects (re. SpecBAS) should be persecuted as public enemies
  • console is a rudiment of the past similar to Dartmouth; its entire functionality requires a half-screenful of include code; modern BASIC beginners should be ushered directly into the wonderful world of modern user-friendly graphics OS'es like MS Windows or macOS
  • goto is great and a must-have for any language out there
  • Python lists are a plagiarism borrowed from LISP to escape its inevitable sinking to oblivion like many other Linuxoid projects of the past and, obviously, of the future; modern BASICs counter LISP-like lists successfully with their own Variant data type functionality
  • advocating Python with its lists or QB64 that has practically no array support and at the same time harassing Script BASIC in its own discussion thread in the absence of the topic starter is plain and lame hypocrisy and infamy "in one bottle"
This is all I have to say regarding the topic, and as I have already said, I will abstain from any further fruitless discussions on it here or elsewhere.
Mike
____________________________________________________________________
(3.6GHz Intel Core i5, 16GB RAM / nVidia GTX 1060Ti , 6GB VRAM / x64 Win7 Ult.)

Offline John

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Re: BASIC
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2018, 02:51:39 PM »
Thanks Mike for your comments and advice.

Offline John

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Re: BASIC
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2018, 03:08:15 PM »
@Tomaaz,

Quote
I wish John didn't quit (I really struggle to find reason for it), but he's gone, so does it really matter what we're posting in this topic?

I left the forum because everyone insisted I become a hobby programmer and make an embeddable commercial grade scripting engine beginner friendly.

I rather use my free time supporting open source projects I like.

Offline John

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Re: BASIC
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2018, 08:08:13 PM »
Quote
If anyone did any insisting, it was John insisting we all love his tool.

Does B+ stand for Bitterness Plus?

Offline Mike Lobanovsky

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Re: BASIC
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2018, 03:34:19 AM »
No, in my perception it stands for Beginner Plus, which in its turn evidently stands for Beginner Eternal. :)
Mike
____________________________________________________________________
(3.6GHz Intel Core i5, 16GB RAM / nVidia GTX 1060Ti , 6GB VRAM / x64 Win7 Ult.)

Offline John

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Re: BASIC
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2018, 07:57:30 AM »
That is how I felt on RetroB. A bunch of kids that never wanted to leave the playground.

Offline AlyssonR

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Re: BASIC
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2018, 02:05:49 AM »
*makes a rude noise*

I have no problem with hobby programmers - but when they whine about 'not being able to use X() because', I get quite irate.

What a lot of them don't understand is that different tools are for different jobs.

I suppose spaghetti has it's purpose in the computer world (can you say 'obfuscation'?), but the continuation of line numbers came from the need to reduce the size of the interpreters and the use of a primitive line-editor, even though it originated in the use of punched cards *shudders*.

Maybe the kids just want to go back to the time of 8-bit computing, PEEK & POKE, and cassette storage?

Offline John

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Re: BASIC
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2018, 08:08:26 AM »
Quote
Maybe the kids just want to go back to the time of 8-bit computing, PEEK & POKE, and cassette storage?

Makes me want to knit a sweater.

Quote
Because god forbid that anyone gets any enjoyment out of something they create for their own pleasure, yeah?

The Toys R Us name may be available.

I now know how Patrice felt being an early pioneer of the PB to C++ migration.

Script BASIC - The mature not dated BASIC.


« Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 11:06:02 AM by John »

Offline John

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Re: BASIC
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2018, 12:03:07 PM »
The current challenge going on at RetroB is being able to walk away with your reputation intact.